4688 is Fire Dispatch simulcast for lifeguards, according to RadioReference.com
http://radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&sid=330
ID Patching
Patches
It's official. The 396 does not follow patches, much to my disappointment for a "state of the art scanner". A pursuit I was listening to in the past I lost with that radio, but heard on the BC 250. I have tried ignore and enable status bits, and with the new firmware. I heard it when I switched to the open mode on 1459.
The best way around this is to add all these talkgroup ID's for SDFD Fire Dispatch. Then add plus 3 to all your SDPD dispach talkgroups. You won't miss too much with an older radio that does not follow patches. Also to be used with newer radios that have this design flaw.
FIRE DISPATCH 7A Confirmed TG's
5008
5011
5015
5168
4688
4195
5239
Police
001456 1459 EAST (PATCH)
EASTERN
001616 1619 WEST (PATCH)
WESTERN
001776 1779 CENT (PATCH)
CENTRAL
001936 1939 N EAST (PATCH)
NORTHEASTERN
002096 2099 S EAST (PATCH)
SOUTH EASTERN
002256 2259 M CITY (PATCH)
MID CITY
Types of Motorola Trunking Systems
Types of Systems:
Type I Systems
Motorola Type I Systems refer to the original Motorola systems that were based on Fleets and Subfleets. Each system had a certain number of Fleets assigned, and then each Fleet had a certain number of Subfleets and radio ids. The distribution of Fleets and Subfleets on a Type I system is determined by the system Fleetmap. Motorola Type I systems are not scalable because they limit the amount of IDs any fleet or subfleet can support.
Type II Systems
Motorola Type II systems refer to the the second generation Motorola Trunking systems that replaced Fleets and Subfleets with the concept of talkgroups and individual radio IDs. There are no dependencies on Fleetmaps, therefore there are no limitations to how many radio ids that can participate on a talkgroup. This allows for greater flexibility for the agency.
Hybrid Systems
A Motorola Hybrid system has "blocks" of the system that are Type I Fleets/Subfleets and Type II talkgroups. All radios may be Type II, or the Type I radios might be used exclusively in subfleets while the Type IIs are used exclusively in talkgroups.
Type IIi Systems
Motorola Type IIi Hybrid is a system that has Type I fleets and subfleets, and has Type II radios that are able to use those Type I fleet/subfleets. The common reason that an agency sets up a Type IIi Hybrid system is because they have newer Type II radios that they want to interoperate with older Type I radios, without having to create new Type II talkgroups
Type IIi Hybrid Systems
A mixture of Hybrid and IIi
Flavors of Motorola Trunking Systems:
Type I (Privacy Plus)
The term Privacy Plus refers to a Type I system. Privacy Plus systems are normally older Public Safety systems and SMRs (Specialized Mobile Radio - Businesses who rent out space on trunking systems)
Type II (Smartnet )
The term Smartnet refers to a set of features made available for Public Safety users. This includes better security, emergency signaling, dynamic regrouping, remote radio monitoring, and other features. The following is true of a Type II Smartnet system.
- Up to 28 system channels
- Up to 65535 unique radio ids
- Up to 4000 talkgroups
- APCO 16 Compliant
Smartzone
Smartzone systems are Smartnet Type II systems that are networked together via Microwave or Land-line to provide multi-site wide area communications. Radios affiliate with a particular site, and affiliate with a talkgroup which allows the radio to talk on that talkgroup to other radios on other sites. Many large public safety and state agencies use SmartZone system for wide area communications. The following are the characteristics of a Motorola Smartzone system:
- Up to 28 channels per site
- Up to 65535 unique radio ids
- Up to 48 Sites
- Analog and/or Digital voice
- APCO 16 Compliant
Monitoring a Smartzone system with a Trunktracker is the same process as monitoring any other Smartnet Type II system, except that you can only monitor one site at a time. For you to monitor a specific talkgroup on a Smartzone site, someone's radio must be affiliated to that specific talkgroup. Therefore, if you are monitoring talkgroup "POLICE-NORTH" on a site where no radios have that talkgroup affiliated, then you will not hear any communications on that talkgroup until a radio affiliates to that talkgroup.
Types of Motorola Trunking Systems
Types of Systems:
Type I Systems
Motorola Type I Systems refer to the original Motorola systems that were based on Fleets and Subfleets. Each system had a certain number of Fleets assigned, and then each Fleet had a certain number of Subfleets and radio ids. The distribution of Fleets and Subfleets on a Type I system is determined by the system Fleetmap. Motorola Type I systems are not scalable because they limit the amount of IDs any fleet or subfleet can support.
Type II Systems
Motorola Type II systems refer to the the second generation Motorola Trunking systems that replaced Fleets and Subfleets with the concept of talkgroups and individual radio IDs. There are no dependencies on Fleetmaps, therefore there are no limitations to how many radio ids that can participate on a talkgroup. This allows for greater flexibility for the agency.
Hybrid Systems
A Motorola Hybrid system has "blocks" of the system that are Type I Fleets/Subfleets and Type II talkgroups. All radios may be Type II, or the Type I radios might be used exclusively in subfleets while the Type IIs are used exclusively in talkgroups.
Type IIi Systems
Motorola Type IIi Hybrid is a system that has Type I fleets and subfleets, and has Type II radios that are able to use those Type I fleet/subfleets. The common reason that an agency sets up a Type IIi Hybrid system is because they have newer Type II radios that they want to interoperate with older Type I radios, without having to create new Type II talkgroups
Type IIi Hybrid Systems
A mixture of Hybrid and IIi
Flavors of Motorola Trunking Systems:
Type I (Privacy Plus)
The term Privacy Plus refers to a Type I system. Privacy Plus systems are normally older Public Safety systems and SMRs (Specialized Mobile Radio - Businesses who rent out space on trunking systems)
Type II (Smartnet )
The term Smartnet refers to a set of features made available for Public Safety users. This includes better security, emergency signaling, dynamic regrouping, remote radio monitoring, and other features. The following is true of a Type II Smartnet system.
- Up to 28 system channels
- Up to 65535 unique radio ids
- Up to 4000 talkgroups
- APCO 16 Compliant
Smartzone
Smartzone systems are Smartnet Type II systems that are networked together via Microwave or Land-line to provide multi-site wide area communications. Radios affiliate with a particular site, and affiliate with a talkgroup which allows the radio to talk on that talkgroup to other radios on other sites. Many large public safety and state agencies use SmartZone system for wide area communications. The following are the characteristics of a Motorola Smartzone system:
- Up to 28 channels per site
- Up to 65535 unique radio ids
- Up to 48 Sites
- Analog and/or Digital voice
- APCO 16 Compliant
Monitoring a Smartzone system with a Trunktracker is the same process as monitoring any other Smartnet Type II system, except that you can only monitor one site at a time. For you to monitor a specific talkgroup on a Smartzone site, someone's radio must be affiliated to that specific talkgroup. Therefore, if you are monitoring talkgroup "POLICE-NORTH" on a site where no radios have that talkgroup affiliated, then you will not hear any communications on that talkgroup until a radio affiliates to that talkgroup
Smartzone OmniLink
Smartzone OmniLink provides a broad range of robust system features and utilizes a distributed call processing architecture which links up to four multi-site Smartzone™ systems together into one seamless network, supporting up to 192 sites.
Typical users of Smartzone OmniLink systems include organizations who have vast geographic requirements -- such as Electric and Gas Companies, and extremely Large Public Safety agencies.
Simulcast
The term simulcast refers to the process of setting up multiple repeaters to transmit exactly the same communications on the same frequency. Many agencies setup Simulcast systems to increase coverage of their single site Motorola system. 1 Site Controller....multiple transmitters.
Smartzone OmniLink
Smartzone OmniLink provides a broad range of robust system features and utilizes a distributed call processing architecture which links up to four multi-site Smartzone™ systems together into one seamless network, supporting up to 192 sites.
Typical users of Smartzone OmniLink systems include organizations who have vast geographic requirements -- such as Electric and Gas Companies, and extremely Large Public Safety agencies.
Simulcast
The term simulcast refers to the process of setting up multiple repeaters to transmit exactly the same communications on the same frequency. Many agencies setup Simulcast systems to increase coverage of their single site Motorola system. 1 Site Controller....multiple transmitters.
Type II Special Status Bits
Type II Smartnet systems use these status bits for special transmissions such as Emergency, Patches, DES/DVP scrambled transmissions, and Multiselects on Motorola Trunking systems. Motorola Trunking radios directly interpret them for their special functions, thus no difference is noticed by the person with the radio. The Trunktracker scanners however interpret these special talkgroup status bits as different talkgroups entirely. Below is the conversion chart for these special status bits.
TTID + #
Usage
ID+0
Normal Talkgroup
ID+1
All Talkgroup
ID+2
Emergency
ID+3
talkgroup patch to another
ID+4
Emergency Patch
ID+5
Emergency multi-group
ID+6
Not assigned
ID+7
Multi-select (initiated by dispatcher)
ID+8
DES Encryption talkgroup
ID+9
DES All Talkgroup
ID+10
DES Emergency
ID+11
DES Talkgroup patch
ID+12
DES Emergency Patch
ID+13
DES Emergency multi-group
ID+14
Not assigned
ID+15
Multi-select DES TG
Therefore, if a user was transmitting a multi-select call on talkgroup 1808, the trunktracker would actually receive those transmissions on 1815. Some common uses of these status bits are as follows:
- When a user hits their emergency button, all conversations on the talkgroup revert to the Emergency status talkgroup (ID+2) until the dispatch clears the emergency status. Therefore, if someone hit their emergency button and their radio was on talkgroup 16, all communications would switch to talkgroup 18.
- A lot of Fire and EMS departments dispatch tone-outs and alarms as Multi-select communications (ID+7). Therefore, if your fire department dispatch talkgroup is 1616, and they do dispatch tone-outs and alarms as Multi-selects, then those communications will be on talkgroup 1623.
This can be a problem, because you will miss communications if you don't have those talkgroups programmed. By setting the Type II block you are monitoring with a fleetmap of S-1 (Mot Size A), you'll essentially get Type I subfleets for each Type II talkgroup - encompassing all of the status bits into one subfleet.
Apologies to whatever website I ripped this info from.
jkphotog1
The best way around this is to add all these talkgroup ID's for SDFD Fire Dispatch. Then add plus 3 to all your SDPD dispach talkgroups. You won't miss too much with an older radio that does not follow patches. Also to be used with newer radios that have this design flaw.
FIRE DISPATCH 7A Confirmed TG's
5008
5011
5015
5168
4688
4195
5239
Police
001456 1459 EAST (PATCH)
EASTERN
001616 1619 WEST (PATCH)
WESTERN
001776 1779 CENT (PATCH)
CENTRAL
001936 1939 N EAST (PATCH)
NORTHEASTERN
002096 2099 S EAST (PATCH)
SOUTH EASTERN
002256 2259 M CITY (PATCH)
MID CITY
Types of Motorola Trunking Systems
Types of Systems:
Type I Systems
Motorola Type I Systems refer to the original Motorola systems that were based on Fleets and Subfleets. Each system had a certain number of Fleets assigned, and then each Fleet had a certain number of Subfleets and radio ids. The distribution of Fleets and Subfleets on a Type I system is determined by the system Fleetmap. Motorola Type I systems are not scalable because they limit the amount of IDs any fleet or subfleet can support.
Type II Systems
Motorola Type II systems refer to the the second generation Motorola Trunking systems that replaced Fleets and Subfleets with the concept of talkgroups and individual radio IDs. There are no dependencies on Fleetmaps, therefore there are no limitations to how many radio ids that can participate on a talkgroup. This allows for greater flexibility for the agency.
Hybrid Systems
A Motorola Hybrid system has "blocks" of the system that are Type I Fleets/Subfleets and Type II talkgroups. All radios may be Type II, or the Type I radios might be used exclusively in subfleets while the Type IIs are used exclusively in talkgroups.
Type IIi Systems
Motorola Type IIi Hybrid is a system that has Type I fleets and subfleets, and has Type II radios that are able to use those Type I fleet/subfleets. The common reason that an agency sets up a Type IIi Hybrid system is because they have newer Type II radios that they want to interoperate with older Type I radios, without having to create new Type II talkgroups
Type IIi Hybrid Systems
A mixture of Hybrid and IIi
Flavors of Motorola Trunking Systems:
Type I (Privacy Plus)
The term Privacy Plus refers to a Type I system. Privacy Plus systems are normally older Public Safety systems and SMRs (Specialized Mobile Radio - Businesses who rent out space on trunking systems)
Type II (Smartnet )
The term Smartnet refers to a set of features made available for Public Safety users. This includes better security, emergency signaling, dynamic regrouping, remote radio monitoring, and other features. The following is true of a Type II Smartnet system.
- Up to 28 system channels
- Up to 65535 unique radio ids
- Up to 4000 talkgroups
- APCO 16 Compliant
Smartzone
Smartzone systems are Smartnet Type II systems that are networked together via Microwave or Land-line to provide multi-site wide area communications. Radios affiliate with a particular site, and affiliate with a talkgroup which allows the radio to talk on that talkgroup to other radios on other sites. Many large public safety and state agencies use SmartZone system for wide area communications. The following are the characteristics of a Motorola Smartzone system:
- Up to 28 channels per site
- Up to 65535 unique radio ids
- Up to 48 Sites
- Analog and/or Digital voice
- APCO 16 Compliant
Monitoring a Smartzone system with a Trunktracker is the same process as monitoring any other Smartnet Type II system, except that you can only monitor one site at a time. For you to monitor a specific talkgroup on a Smartzone site, someone's radio must be affiliated to that specific talkgroup. Therefore, if you are monitoring talkgroup "POLICE-NORTH" on a site where no radios have that talkgroup affiliated, then you will not hear any communications on that talkgroup until a radio affiliates to that talkgroup.
Types of Motorola Trunking Systems
Types of Systems:
Type I Systems
Motorola Type I Systems refer to the original Motorola systems that were based on Fleets and Subfleets. Each system had a certain number of Fleets assigned, and then each Fleet had a certain number of Subfleets and radio ids. The distribution of Fleets and Subfleets on a Type I system is determined by the system Fleetmap. Motorola Type I systems are not scalable because they limit the amount of IDs any fleet or subfleet can support.
Type II Systems
Motorola Type II systems refer to the the second generation Motorola Trunking systems that replaced Fleets and Subfleets with the concept of talkgroups and individual radio IDs. There are no dependencies on Fleetmaps, therefore there are no limitations to how many radio ids that can participate on a talkgroup. This allows for greater flexibility for the agency.
Hybrid Systems
A Motorola Hybrid system has "blocks" of the system that are Type I Fleets/Subfleets and Type II talkgroups. All radios may be Type II, or the Type I radios might be used exclusively in subfleets while the Type IIs are used exclusively in talkgroups.
Type IIi Systems
Motorola Type IIi Hybrid is a system that has Type I fleets and subfleets, and has Type II radios that are able to use those Type I fleet/subfleets. The common reason that an agency sets up a Type IIi Hybrid system is because they have newer Type II radios that they want to interoperate with older Type I radios, without having to create new Type II talkgroups
Type IIi Hybrid Systems
A mixture of Hybrid and IIi
Flavors of Motorola Trunking Systems:
Type I (Privacy Plus)
The term Privacy Plus refers to a Type I system. Privacy Plus systems are normally older Public Safety systems and SMRs (Specialized Mobile Radio - Businesses who rent out space on trunking systems)
Type II (Smartnet )
The term Smartnet refers to a set of features made available for Public Safety users. This includes better security, emergency signaling, dynamic regrouping, remote radio monitoring, and other features. The following is true of a Type II Smartnet system.
- Up to 28 system channels
- Up to 65535 unique radio ids
- Up to 4000 talkgroups
- APCO 16 Compliant
Smartzone
Smartzone systems are Smartnet Type II systems that are networked together via Microwave or Land-line to provide multi-site wide area communications. Radios affiliate with a particular site, and affiliate with a talkgroup which allows the radio to talk on that talkgroup to other radios on other sites. Many large public safety and state agencies use SmartZone system for wide area communications. The following are the characteristics of a Motorola Smartzone system:
- Up to 28 channels per site
- Up to 65535 unique radio ids
- Up to 48 Sites
- Analog and/or Digital voice
- APCO 16 Compliant
Monitoring a Smartzone system with a Trunktracker is the same process as monitoring any other Smartnet Type II system, except that you can only monitor one site at a time. For you to monitor a specific talkgroup on a Smartzone site, someone's radio must be affiliated to that specific talkgroup. Therefore, if you are monitoring talkgroup "POLICE-NORTH" on a site where no radios have that talkgroup affiliated, then you will not hear any communications on that talkgroup until a radio affiliates to that talkgroup
Smartzone OmniLink
Smartzone OmniLink provides a broad range of robust system features and utilizes a distributed call processing architecture which links up to four multi-site Smartzone™ systems together into one seamless network, supporting up to 192 sites.
Typical users of Smartzone OmniLink systems include organizations who have vast geographic requirements -- such as Electric and Gas Companies, and extremely Large Public Safety agencies.
Simulcast
The term simulcast refers to the process of setting up multiple repeaters to transmit exactly the same communications on the same frequency. Many agencies setup Simulcast systems to increase coverage of their single site Motorola system. 1 Site Controller....multiple transmitters.
Smartzone OmniLink
Smartzone OmniLink provides a broad range of robust system features and utilizes a distributed call processing architecture which links up to four multi-site Smartzone™ systems together into one seamless network, supporting up to 192 sites.
Typical users of Smartzone OmniLink systems include organizations who have vast geographic requirements -- such as Electric and Gas Companies, and extremely Large Public Safety agencies.
Simulcast
The term simulcast refers to the process of setting up multiple repeaters to transmit exactly the same communications on the same frequency. Many agencies setup Simulcast systems to increase coverage of their single site Motorola system. 1 Site Controller....multiple transmitters.
Type II Special Status Bits
Type II Smartnet systems use these status bits for special transmissions such as Emergency, Patches, DES/DVP scrambled transmissions, and Multiselects on Motorola Trunking systems. Motorola Trunking radios directly interpret them for their special functions, thus no difference is noticed by the person with the radio. The Trunktracker scanners however interpret these special talkgroup status bits as different talkgroups entirely. Below is the conversion chart for these special status bits.
TTID + #
Usage
ID+0
Normal Talkgroup
ID+1
All Talkgroup
ID+2
Emergency
ID+3
talkgroup patch to another
ID+4
Emergency Patch
ID+5
Emergency multi-group
ID+6
Not assigned
ID+7
Multi-select (initiated by dispatcher)
ID+8
DES Encryption talkgroup
ID+9
DES All Talkgroup
ID+10
DES Emergency
ID+11
DES Talkgroup patch
ID+12
DES Emergency Patch
ID+13
DES Emergency multi-group
ID+14
Not assigned
ID+15
Multi-select DES TG
Therefore, if a user was transmitting a multi-select call on talkgroup 1808, the trunktracker would actually receive those transmissions on 1815. Some common uses of these status bits are as follows:
- When a user hits their emergency button, all conversations on the talkgroup revert to the Emergency status talkgroup (ID+2) until the dispatch clears the emergency status. Therefore, if someone hit their emergency button and their radio was on talkgroup 16, all communications would switch to talkgroup 18.
- A lot of Fire and EMS departments dispatch tone-outs and alarms as Multi-select communications (ID+7). Therefore, if your fire department dispatch talkgroup is 1616, and they do dispatch tone-outs and alarms as Multi-selects, then those communications will be on talkgroup 1623.
This can be a problem, because you will miss communications if you don't have those talkgroups programmed. By setting the Type II block you are monitoring with a fleetmap of S-1 (Mot Size A), you'll essentially get Type I subfleets for each Type II talkgroup - encompassing all of the status bits into one subfleet.
Apologies to whatever website I ripped this info from.
jkphotog1
The 396 works fine with patches ... If you're having to use talkgroups that aren't divisible by 16 (5011 or 5015 for example), then you don't have the Status Bit option set properly for the trunked system. In the Uniden 396 software, it's Ignore Status Bit that you want to have checked. Based on watching Trunker and seeing what comes across on the radio, it's been my experience that Patching uses a single frequency (what talkgroup it chooses to use is beyond me) while Multi-Select uses a frequency per talkgroup selected. Perhaps someone can explain the technical difference between the two options (and why one is preferable to the others).
When multiple talkgroups are patched, you will want to have both talkgroups entered into your scanner. The ID your scanner uses seems to be whichever talkgroup was selected first by the dispatcher
For example, on RCS North, SO Rural Dispatch and SO Poway Dispatched are typically patched. Which talkgroup appears changes from time to time The same with CHP El Cajon (either East or South) or Court Services (North or South) or any of the other typically-patched groups.
As far as 4688 goes on the City system, it appears to be a Tone Out channel for the FD, although I haven't really paid attention to when things get toned and when they don't.
When multiple talkgroups are patched, you will want to have both talkgroups entered into your scanner. The ID your scanner uses seems to be whichever talkgroup was selected first by the dispatcher
For example, on RCS North, SO Rural Dispatch and SO Poway Dispatched are typically patched. Which talkgroup appears changes from time to time The same with CHP El Cajon (either East or South) or Court Services (North or South) or any of the other typically-patched groups.As far as 4688 goes on the City system, it appears to be a Tone Out channel for the FD, although I haven't really paid attention to when things get toned and when they don't.
Multi select is where the dispatcher wants to go out over two or more TG's. (e.g. ALL UNITS ALL FREQUENCIES, THIS IS EASTERN WITH A BOL")Mikey wrote:The 396 works fine with patches ... If you're having to use talkgroups that aren't divisible by 16 (5011 or 5015 for example), then you don't have the Status Bit option set properly for the trunked system. In the Uniden 396 software, it's Ignore Status Bit that you want to have checked. Based on watching Trunker and seeing what comes across on the radio, it's been my experience that Patching uses a single frequency (what talkgroup it chooses to use is beyond me) while Multi-Select uses a frequency per talkgroup selected. Perhaps someone can explain the technical difference between the two options (and why one is preferable to the others).
.
The units won't be cross TG'ed. Just the dispatcher for a quick announcement. Patch, you know what that is.
I've seen about 4 396's where the owner has tried both toggles for status bit and it fails to track. I've even updated the firm ware on a few of those for them with no results. Very intrersting you get it working no problem. Do you happen to know what firmware your scanner is using? A couple of these dudes are very frustrated with that. That's why they resorted to all of the status-bit resultant talkgroups... (5008, 5015, ect).
I'm using firmware v1.11.03 on my 396 - the latest from their website. As far as I can tell I'm not having any problems on the City system. To grab all of the FD dispatches, you need to have at least 4688, 5008, and Admin programmed in. When I remember to do it, I'll program the city system and leave it logging for awhile to double check and see if the status bit setting is not functioning, but I don't think I'm missing anything.
If it's tracking properly, you only need 5008. On my Motorola's thats the only TG you put in, and it hears every dispatch. I've noticed that I mode over to ADMIN during a dispatch, and it mirrors 7A. So something is not quite right on the patch or multiselect with the 396. Same applies to some scanners I own, like the old 235.Mikey wrote:I'm using firmware v1.11.03 on my 396 - the latest from their website. As far as I can tell I'm not having any problems on the City system. To grab all of the FD dispatches, you need to have at least 4688, 5008, and Admin programmed in. When I remember to do it, I'll program the city system and leave it logging for awhile to double check and see if the status bit setting is not functioning, but I don't think I'm missing anything.
What you can look for is let's say they get a pursuit and they patch two PD divsions together. You would want to check if you can hear it on both of the patchees. That's where is sometimes gets lost from what I've seen and heard..