Firefighters distrust of digital radio system grows

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mike
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:34 am

Firefighters distrust of digital radio system grows

Post by mike »

I just thought I would post this I thought it was interesting in my opinion I just think that digital would put firefighters lives in danger anyway here is the article:


On April 16, 2007, firefighter Kyle Wilson was part of a crew dispatched to fight a residential fire in Woodbridge, Va. He died in the line of duty.

A detailed report on the incident recently released by Prince William County Department of Fire and Rescue concluded that problems associated with the use of the county’s Motorola digital trunked radio system contributed to the tragedy. Issues reported by other firefighters during that incident, which was further complicated by strong winds, ranged from signal distortion and transmission failure to radios displaying “out of range” signals.

Fire safety advocates now are encouraging fire departments across the country to study the incident in hopes that future tragedies could be avoided. Prince William County’s fire department, through further tests, concluded that digital portable radios are “extremely vulnerable to poor environmental conditions and interference of digital noise from ambient sources, which negatively impact the ability of emergency personnel to effectively communicate.”
A handful of fire and police departments, fearing the loss of lives, have opted to continue using analog systems even when the rest of their county’s emergency personnel are using digital trunking systems.

The common complaint, which most affects fire departments, concerns the digital vocoder’s inability to differentiate between a voice transmission and background noise - whether a chain saw, sprayed water or personal alarm. Background noise renders the voice transmission distorted and often unintelligible. Another critical problem is that digital radios lose contact inside buildings. “In most cases, it is a very political and sensitive position to abandon expensive technology and go back to something that is old,” said Daryl Jones, owner and president of Telecommunications Engineering Associates, which manages public safety systems throughout the San Mateo area in California. “But many agencies are finding that complaints from line personnel, both in fire and police, are so significant.”
Brian
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Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:54 pm

Post by Brian »

Here is the links. Since it never made it in the first post.

Here is the linked to article.
http://cms.firehouse.com/content/articl ... ctionId=46

http://blog.tcomeng.com/index.php/2008/ ... odd-death/


Prince William County Fire website regarding this incident
* LODD Report Fact Sheet (29.3 kb)
* LODD Investigative Report (9.16 mb)
* LODD Report Presentation (6.65 mb)
*LODD Report Basic House Model (Section 1) (1.87 mb)
*LODD Report Video (Section 2) (20.4 mb)
* LODD Report Fire Model (Section 3) (5.16 mb)
*LODD Flashover Chart (60 kb)
http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topi ... 0110004566

&

Thread about the article on RR
http://www.radioreference.com/forums/sh ... p?t=101139
800
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Location: Hanover County, VA

Re: Firefighters distrust of digital radio system grows

Post by 800 »

mike wrote:I just thought I would post this I thought it was interesting in my opinion I just think that digital would put firefighters lives in danger anyway here is the article:


On April 16, 2007, firefighter Kyle Wilson was part of a crew dispatched to fight a residential fire in Woodbridge, Va. He died in the line of duty.

<snip>
This is an issue that has been known about for a couple of years. There is a group within the P25 development process looking at how to resolve the issue.

Don
Brian
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Post by Brian »

P25 Users Tackle Digital Audio Issues
August 06, 2008
http://mccmag.com/onlyonline.cfm?OnlyOnlineID=50


APCO Conference & Expo:(Aug 3-7, 2008)
http://www.apco2008.org/

By Sandra Wendelken

The Project 25 (P25) committees met last week before the Association of Public-Safety Communications Officials (APCO) International conference and exhibition in Kansas City, Mo. Attendance at the meeting was strong, with as many as 75 to 100 participants in some sessions, said Craig Jorgensen, co-chair of the P25 Steering Committee. Several issues were high on the committee agendas, but for the User Needs Subcommittee (UNS), comprised of public-safety communications officials, the top priority was the issue of digital vocoders.

This spring, a detailed report comparing the audio quality of analog and digital networks was released by a federal group of engineers in Boulder, Colo. The report, which dealt specifically with background noises firefighters might have while using their two-way radios, compared a 25-kilohertz analog FM radio pair, baseline P25 full-rate IMBE vocoder radio pair and enhanced P25 full-rate IMBE vocoder radio pair in nine different noise environments. The report, conducted in partnership with the International Association of Fire Chiefs (IAFC), showed there are problems with current digital P25 vocoders.

An enhanced half-rate vocoder is available but it’s not been implemented industrywide, said Bob Pletcher, chairman of the P25 UNS. The issue was front and center on the committee’s agenda last week. “We need to improve the quality and intelligibility of digital audio in high-noise situations and to assure that the issues identified by the IAFC are resolved,” Pletcher said.

Another issue important to the committee is over-the-air programming (OTAP). Federal users are required to have OTAP in encrypted mode. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) requires that state and local jurisdictions include these federal users into their local and regional interoperability plans. Although some local agencies don’t feel they need encrypted OTAP, the security issues are real and significant. The user committee discussed a solution to address all public-safety user needs, said Pletcher, who is also the chairman of the Texas statewide interoperability executive committee (SIEC).

“I expect to see solidification of some of the baseline requirements National Institute of Justice (NIJ) CommTech and others are purposing for OTAP,” Jorgensen said.

The Inter RF Subsystem Interface (ISSI) is another point of discussion. The current ISSI standard doesn’t handle the proprietary features or capabilities that manufacturers’ have implemented in their systems. The ISSI does provide a workable solution that provides P25 functionality from one supplier’s network to another supplier’s network. The ISSI passes the basic information from one system to another, but not some of the “bells and whistles” that some vendors use to differentiate their products, Pletcher said.

Phase 2 of P25 is moving along as well, with some of the Phase 2 requirements available in commercial products within the next year. Pletcher said multiple committees are working on Phase 2 and each is working closely with the USN and the Steering Committee to “resolve any outstanding issues that remain.” Some of the Phase 2 suite of standards will be approved after the meeting in Kansas City but it will take time before all of the various interfaces are officially standardized.

“It can be expected that there will be preliminary adoption of an updated encryption/KMF proposal” at the close of the meetings, Jorgensen said. He also expects the steering committee will approve a number of proposed standards documents for ballot and hold open discussions on the so-called fire-ground issue. “I expect we will receive clear indications that significant progress is being made in both the TDMA and ISSI standards process,” he said.

Compliance Program

The Compliance Assessment Program (CAP) for P25 is also moving forward with the first CAP governing board meeting held in May. CAP will first assess vendor laboratories to determine whether they can perform required P25 tests. Vendors will then test the P25 Common Air Interface (CAI) of different vendor equipment, rating various features and components of each product. ISSI equipment will follow.

The CAP governing board is a DHS entity made up of government representatives from local, state and federal agencies. All but three of the 11 board members represent organizations that use LMR systems and either currently own or plan to procure digital radio systems. The other three voting members include two DHS representatives one National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) employee.

“The role of the board is to represent the collective interests of organizations that procure P25 equipment,” said Dereck Orr, program manager for public-safety communications standards for NIST’s Office of Law Enforcement Standards (OLES). “It establishes the policies of the P25 CAP and assists program manager in the administration of the program.”

The board will issue compliance assessment bulletins (CAB) in support of the operation of the P25 CAP. The DHS Office for Interoperability and Compatibility (OIC) uses the bulletins to develop requirements that must be met by equipment suppliers that participate in the CAP.

Sandra Wendelken is editor of MissionCritical Communications and RadioResource International.
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mike
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Post by mike »

Will everything be encrypted?
Brian
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Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:54 pm

Post by Brian »

Who/what agency you talking about ;)

It's up to the agency if they want to use encryption.

NO... not everything will be encrypted! Because someone will forget to keep that switch on the radio on 'Encrypted' mode at all times! :wink:
mike wrote:Will everything be encrypted?
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